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ryan infected by moderate massachusetts mitt romney? >> well, i think what you heard this morning when i asked him this question, and he as mitted there were differences between them but he also tried to say the differences between romney and ryan pale in comparison to the differences between the obama ticket and the romney ticket, but he seemed to indicate that ryan's job is to defend the romney plan and the romney budget. i do think what chris points out, that what biden's strategy is going to be is to try to create a split, is try to put him in an awkward position, make him defend one or the other. i think one thing to watch for tonight is it's my understanding -- from when i was talking to the campaigns, if they get one thing out of biden tonight, the obama campaign, that is to make the base of the democratic party feel better tonight, that he gets a little aggressive, that he goes after some core issues like abortion, like contraception to make the base feel better. on the ryan side, they know they sort of have in a weird way they
ryan infected by moderate massachusetts mitt romney? >> well, i think what you heard this morning when i asked him this question, and he as mitted there were differences between them but he also tried to say the differences between romney and ryan pale in comparison to the differences between the obama ticket and the romney ticket, but he seemed to indicate that ryan's job is to defend the romney plan and the romney budget. i do think what chris points out, that what biden's strategy is...
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. >> paul ryan set to clear any confusion about the romney/ryan ticket. >> i'm a pro-life candidate, i'll be a pro-life president. >> our position is consistent and hasn't changed. >> he can't clear up confusion on his own budget. >> i don't have the time -- it would take me too long to go through all the math. >> oh, brother. just spin already. >> i just got to ask what's your personal best? >> 1under three. >> holy smoke. >> i stand by what i said, whatever it was. >>> we are pumped up, fired up, and jacked up with just hours until tonight's first and only face-off between vice president joseph biden and vice presidential nominee paul ryan. and what was once regarded as a popcorn side show has taken on far greater significance in the wake of the president's less than scintillating performance last week. democrats are anxious, republicans are hungry for a surge, and as ryan and biden take the stage tonight, they have a chance to influence this election at a volatile moment. and the president himself knows he's got to push harder against his ever-shifting rival. speaking just moments
. >> paul ryan set to clear any confusion about the romney/ryan ticket. >> i'm a pro-life candidate, i'll be a pro-life president. >> our position is consistent and hasn't changed. >> he can't clear up confusion on his own budget. >> i don't have the time -- it would take me too long to go through all the math. >> oh, brother. just spin already. >> i just got to ask what's your personal best? >> 1under three. >> holy smoke. >> i stand...
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joe biden simply dismantled the romney/ryan world view. but also talk about how the right wingers are trying to make a big deal out of joe biden's smile. so what? i would have been outright laughing in paul ryan's face. joe biden was fed up and who could blame him? >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> and why is that so? >> because not a single thing he said is accurate. >> this is a bunch of stuff. >> what do you mean a bunch of stuff? >> it's simply inaccurate. >> it's irish. >> thanks for the translation. okay. >> malarkey. a bunch of stuff. i love it. i love it. biden systematically took apart ryan's arguments for less government, let's accountability, let's community. it got so bad, paul ryan was driven to drink. literally. he went back to that cup of water over and over again. by our last count, at least 21 time. what's the matter there, mr. ryan? got a little cotton mouth? last night the romney/ryan effort was exposed as a shield for the extreme far right and vice president biden drove that point home again and ag
joe biden simply dismantled the romney/ryan world view. but also talk about how the right wingers are trying to make a big deal out of joe biden's smile. so what? i would have been outright laughing in paul ryan's face. joe biden was fed up and who could blame him? >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> and why is that so? >> because not a single thing he said is accurate. >> this is a bunch of stuff. >> what do you mean a bunch of stuff? >>...
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isn't ryan supposed to be the brain of the romney campaign and we're lacking specifics? i mean, wasn't that a poor explanation? >> well, yes, and let me give you his idea of a study. he said there are six studies. three of those six studies are blog posts and one of them is by a research assistant at aei, which is one of the big ideological marketing organizations that pitch you their view of the world just the way companies advertise other products. but blog posts, those are studies that prove things? that's hilarious. >> why doesn't the plan add up? why doesn't his so-called plan for america, the 20% cut, add up? where's the flaw? >> well, it does add up for the very rich. if you listen very carefully to what romney always says, he says he's going to cut rates 20% and then he's going to see to it that those at the top don't pay a larger share of the total tax burden. well, that means that they're going to get a huge decrease in their tax bill. that's the important element. that is the ryan/romney plan, it is to create dynastic wealth which i think would be devastating
isn't ryan supposed to be the brain of the romney campaign and we're lacking specifics? i mean, wasn't that a poor explanation? >> well, yes, and let me give you his idea of a study. he said there are six studies. three of those six studies are blog posts and one of them is by a research assistant at aei, which is one of the big ideological marketing organizations that pitch you their view of the world just the way companies advertise other products. but blog posts, those are studies that...
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the romney/ryan spending plan here. but last night martha raddatz's questioning and joe biden's badgering got paul ryan to disavow this plan altogether saying he does not want an increase at all despite the fact it is what he and mr. romney has been campaigning on. paul ryan broke new ground on saying how and why he and mitt romney would overturn roe v. wade and make abortion criminal. his issue on rape in particular has people going nuts today for obvious reasons. we'll be covering that in future shows. joe biden also dipped paul ryan in tar and rolled him in feathers on the issue of the stimulus. and mr. ryan's supposed principles on that issue. we talked about that moments ago with chris hayes. but there are two things that i think are hugely important to the presidential campaign that happened last night. two things that i, frankly, never thought we would get to. and that we got to and, boy, howdy, is this new territory. first was this. >> you asked, do i feel free? let me put it to you this way. i earned capital in
the romney/ryan spending plan here. but last night martha raddatz's questioning and joe biden's badgering got paul ryan to disavow this plan altogether saying he does not want an increase at all despite the fact it is what he and mr. romney has been campaigning on. paul ryan broke new ground on saying how and why he and mitt romney would overturn roe v. wade and make abortion criminal. his issue on rape in particular has people going nuts today for obvious reasons. we'll be covering that in...
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>> well, i think it's interesting that paul ryan said that if romney and ryan get elected they're not doing anything about reinstating don't ask, don't tell, which contradict what romney said during the debates, the primary and the promises he made to the gop base. i would like to see them pressed on that. you know, lgbt people we tend to see progress under democratic administrations and not a lot of regress, sometimes benign, sames malicious neglect under republican administrations. >> finally, for you, what sort of message would you extend to lgbt youth. >> coming out is not the end it's better problems. when you first come out parents react negatively. it's important to have a backup plan, line up support. 40% of homeless teenagers are lgbt kids kicked out or thrown out after they came out. if you think your family might react negatively, have a place to go, have support, have friends who have offers you a couch. >> prepare. >> prepare. don't just come out blindly. ask for your parents' love and support but have a plan, a backup plan. >> dan savage, thank you. thank you for your ti
>> well, i think it's interesting that paul ryan said that if romney and ryan get elected they're not doing anything about reinstating don't ask, don't tell, which contradict what romney said during the debates, the primary and the promises he made to the gop base. i would like to see them pressed on that. you know, lgbt people we tend to see progress under democratic administrations and not a lot of regress, sometimes benign, sames malicious neglect under republican administrations....
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or are you running and paul ryan as part of the romney/ryan ticket? how much should we expect to hear tonight about the way paul ryan comported himself in the house of representatives? >> well, you know, rachel, mitt romney and paul ryan campaigned all throughout the state of wisconsin during the republican primaries, where mitt romney completely wrapped his arms around paul ryan's policies. paul ryan's budget. i think that is going to be a piece of the discussion tonight and i think that is, you know, part of what the american people need to decide on, whether or not they want a budget that protects tax cuts for those at the top but is cutting education, and veterans and clean energy, innovation, infrastructure, turning medicare into a voucher program. those are the types of choices that the meamerican people have before them and that will be part of the discussion tonight. >> you said earlier today, stephanie, that paul ryan and mitt romney are politicizing the attack in benghazi that killed our ambassador there. the republican national committee re
or are you running and paul ryan as part of the romney/ryan ticket? how much should we expect to hear tonight about the way paul ryan comported himself in the house of representatives? >> well, you know, rachel, mitt romney and paul ryan campaigned all throughout the state of wisconsin during the republican primaries, where mitt romney completely wrapped his arms around paul ryan's policies. paul ryan's budget. i think that is going to be a piece of the discussion tonight and i think that...
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romney -- mr. ryan came across as the better candidate for many reasons. joe biden came across to me as a tranquil man, very unlikable and very un presidential. he was staring, rude, interrupting, talking over and out of turn. a very destructive, laughing, smirking, shaking his head, -- pointing the finger, angry tone of voice. very condescending. he spoke more than ryan did by over a minute, almost two minutes more. fact checkers have already gone over the time. i thought ryan had a stronger finish, as the independent spoke earlier said, and i thought joe biden came across as having more experience and very aggressive, but over aggressive. he was not professional. he was not using decorum. a thought the moderator using the system, the format she used, seemed to interrupt ryan much more often than riot -- and biden, not letting him finish his statements. that bothers me. overall, i thought ryan had a great finish. he had a strong closing statement. i thought, overall, he did a much better job portraying himself as presidential. a polite young man. a very p
romney -- mr. ryan came across as the better candidate for many reasons. joe biden came across to me as a tranquil man, very unlikable and very un presidential. he was staring, rude, interrupting, talking over and out of turn. a very destructive, laughing, smirking, shaking his head, -- pointing the finger, angry tone of voice. very condescending. he spoke more than ryan did by over a minute, almost two minutes more. fact checkers have already gone over the time. i thought ryan had a stronger...
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while ryan voted for bailout, how will that be handle fd it comes up tonight, the ryan/romney -- >> this is someone who has been a hero of right wing idealogs. he is going to go out there before the american people and renounce what his entire career has been, which is working and working as part of the right-wing republican caucus and being a champion. is he going to sell that out on the national stage? >> catch up with chris hayes saturdays and sundays from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. eastern and krystal on "the cycle" right here at 3:00 prk m. on msnbc. >>> coming up, shocking comments from an ally of paul ryan. comments that are now forcing mr. ryan to drop his old friend after he says, quote, some girls rate easy. >>> plus, new problems for moderate mitt romney. a new tape from three years ago surfaces. this time, he's praising glenn beck. >>> and great news, things are getting better so the right-wing conspiracy theorists have hit the halls of congress. you're watching a special edition of "politicsnation." as we get ready for the big vice president debate in kentucky, the place for po
while ryan voted for bailout, how will that be handle fd it comes up tonight, the ryan/romney -- >> this is someone who has been a hero of right wing idealogs. he is going to go out there before the american people and renounce what his entire career has been, which is working and working as part of the right-wing republican caucus and being a champion. is he going to sell that out on the national stage? >> catch up with chris hayes saturdays and sundays from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m....
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six studies say the romney/ryan math adds up. the talking point's been so great that a top romney adviser took it for a spin over to the home field this weekend. and he wasn't expecting this. >> six different studies have said this is entirely doable. >> that wasn't the question. some of them are blog and independent groups. >> these are very credible sources and -- >> one of them is a from a guy who -- a blog from a top adviser to george w. bush. these are hardly nonpartisan studies. >> chris, i think if you look at harvard and aei, they are very credible sources. >> you wouldn't say that aei is a conservative think tank? >> it's a light leaning think tank but that doesn't make it uncredible. >> it doesn't make it partisan. >> two blogs from the conservative think tank, american enterprise institute. another nonpartisan study is from the conservative think tank, the heritage foundation. their own website said that it's a paper written by, ready for this one, a former bush adviser. study number five, five says -- is written by "t
six studies say the romney/ryan math adds up. the talking point's been so great that a top romney adviser took it for a spin over to the home field this weekend. and he wasn't expecting this. >> six different studies have said this is entirely doable. >> that wasn't the question. some of them are blog and independent groups. >> these are very credible sources and -- >> one of them is a from a guy who -- a blog from a top adviser to george w. bush. these are hardly...
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that's not where mitt romney is. so poor paul ryan. he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. >> don't forget big bird there, jonathan. remember governor romney did give us a specific, he's going to get rid of big bird. >> that's impressive. ari, for sheer bravado in the absence of any details, paul ryan surely wins the oscar because he claims six studies prove that their 20% tax cut will be revenue neutral and won't increase the deficit. but i have to tell you, three of those six studies were blog posts or op-eds and one of them was paid for by romney for president, inc. that's the most elegant mendacity i've ever seen, isn't it? >> i would love to have their campaign promote my blog. if each post is a study, you can really get on a roll there. i'm really glad you're spotlighting this, martin, because this is the biggest problem they have on the domestic front. they've outlined these 20% cuts for everyone, that's a 20% cut in taxes for the 1%, and then they've said but don't worry, it's not really going to cut the taxes on the ric
that's not where mitt romney is. so poor paul ryan. he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. >> don't forget big bird there, jonathan. remember governor romney did give us a specific, he's going to get rid of big bird. >> that's impressive. ari, for sheer bravado in the absence of any details, paul ryan surely wins the oscar because he claims six studies prove that their 20% tax cut will be revenue neutral and won't increase the deficit. but i have to tell you, three of those...
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of medicaid. >> romney/ryan tax plan will raise taxes on middle-class families with a child, one or more children by an additional $2,000 a year. >> don't tell me what you value. show me your budget and i'll tell you what the value. >>> vice president biden will have some serious things to say this thursday. joining me is steve carnaci, co-host of "the cycle. he's writing in "salon" today about paul ryan's thing skin. thanks for coming on the show. >> thanks for having me. is he ready for joe biden? >> it's an open question. one thing we found is he hasn't been ready forred kind of scrutiny that comes with a national spot light. there have been several interviews, in what we all assumed would be friendly turf fox news where at the slightest bit of scrutiny on follow-up questions he's gotten very testy and evasive. you can think of early on back in august in an interview, how long it would take mitt romney's budget to be balance. he said i don't want to be all wonky on you, but i don't know. and chris wallace started grilling him, a promise it will be deficit neutral and very vague p
of medicaid. >> romney/ryan tax plan will raise taxes on middle-class families with a child, one or more children by an additional $2,000 a year. >> don't tell me what you value. show me your budget and i'll tell you what the value. >>> vice president biden will have some serious things to say this thursday. joining me is steve carnaci, co-host of "the cycle. he's writing in "salon" today about paul ryan's thing skin. thanks for coming on the show. >>...
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and ryan are talking about? and i think that's part of what the president needs to be doing. i think it's what the campaign is doing here in this ad is to say, if you're going to make this cut, let's talk about the reality of what that's going to mean for people. you want to, you know, go invade iran, okay. are we all ready to see more caskets coming into dover, delaware? are we really ready to send men and women in uniform to another front in the war? you're going to make all of these cuts and how is that going to add up? it's not going to add up. here are the places where those cuts are going to have to come from. i think bringing it back to real terms, because, again, i think romney won't have the answer essentially. david is right. he has 9 top line -- >> i don't agree with you. romney's answer is very clear, ask me on the 7th of november. >> his answer is always no, it's not. >> exactly. >> because i said to. >> karen, david, and richard, thank you both. thank you all. next, paul ryan can't stand the heat a
and ryan are talking about? and i think that's part of what the president needs to be doing. i think it's what the campaign is doing here in this ad is to say, if you're going to make this cut, let's talk about the reality of what that's going to mean for people. you want to, you know, go invade iran, okay. are we all ready to see more caskets coming into dover, delaware? are we really ready to send men and women in uniform to another front in the war? you're going to make all of these cuts and...
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but these strong pleas to cease and desist have not registered with the romney/ryan ticket. their basic condemnation concerns the way these tragic events were communicated by the administration. >> they sent the u.n. ambassador out to say that this was because of a protest and a youtube video. it took the president two weeks to acknowledge this was a terrorist attack. >> the man who fashioned this attack for congressman ryan last week was his senior foreign policy adviser dan senor. he knows a thick or two about using events overseas for the purpose of an election campaign. in 2004 as a senior adviser to george bush, mr. senor was charged with talking up conditions inside iraq in order to help his boss win re-election. unfortunately for him, a violent insurgency had taken hold. iraq's infrastructure was in ruins, billions of dollars in aid were vanishing, power plants were being bombed, and death squads were running the streets. but just months before the presidential election, here is what mr. senor said. i can tell you that the majority of this country, the majority of the
but these strong pleas to cease and desist have not registered with the romney/ryan ticket. their basic condemnation concerns the way these tragic events were communicated by the administration. >> they sent the u.n. ambassador out to say that this was because of a protest and a youtube video. it took the president two weeks to acknowledge this was a terrorist attack. >> the man who fashioned this attack for congressman ryan last week was his senior foreign policy adviser dan senor....
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mitt romney called paul ryan today as well, wished him luck. both sides gearing up for this. you mentioned that achille's foot. some analysts say in this kind of format, the vice president won't slip up. >> in debates, particularly against sarah palin four years ago, he was pretty disciplined. i think republicans would be unwise to count on a biden gaffe occurring during this debate. >> senior democrat told me a short time ago where the vice president does get in trouble is not in this format, but a tv interview and he starts winding around and telling a long story and goes off message. another thing to watch tonight is that this is not just domestic policy like the first debate. it's foreign policy as well. that terrorist attack in libya could come up tonight for the first time in one of these debates. >> shep: yeah, i would be surprised if it didn't. what's the obama campaign telling you about the strategy and taking on congressman ryan? >> they're saying to me in private that he's not really just taking on congressman ryan. the plan, the strategy is to go after the top of
mitt romney called paul ryan today as well, wished him luck. both sides gearing up for this. you mentioned that achille's foot. some analysts say in this kind of format, the vice president won't slip up. >> in debates, particularly against sarah palin four years ago, he was pretty disciplined. i think republicans would be unwise to count on a biden gaffe occurring during this debate. >> senior democrat told me a short time ago where the vice president does get in trouble is not in...
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romney said today under duress that the romney/ryan position is the romney/ryan position, there's no difference between them. and he said you'll hear more about it at the vice presidential debate tomorrow. i bet you will. joining us now is steve kornacki, co-host of "the cycle." thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> the democrats have been aggressive in driving their campaigning on this issue, because they think that's a key issue for locking up the women's vote. with this walkback, this attempted and failed walkback that happened within the last 24 hours from the romney campaign, do you think that's going to have an impact there? >> yeah. there's some interesting data that came out in the last few days which i think is what was initially behind what mitt romney said, taking a more moderate position on abortion. first you had this poll that came out in ohio, showing obama ahead of romney by four. the gender gap in this thing was astounding. among men, romney had a 16-point lead in ohio. among women, 60-38, obama. that is like a 38-point gender gap. i have not seen someth
romney said today under duress that the romney/ryan position is the romney/ryan position, there's no difference between them. and he said you'll hear more about it at the vice presidential debate tomorrow. i bet you will. joining us now is steve kornacki, co-host of "the cycle." thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> the democrats have been aggressive in driving their campaigning on this issue, because they think that's a key issue for locking up the women's...
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ryan saying mitt romney's performance makes it more difficult for him. people are suggesting that vice president joe biden is gaffe-ridden and incompetent. what are you expecting from this debate? >> i will go ahead and i would say i'd set the bar pretty high for biden because i think he's a much better debater than obama. one of the reasons biden ended up on the ticket with obama in 2008 was that in 2007 and 2008 running against hillary clinton, running against barack obama, it was biden who are often than not who would steal the show at those democratic debates. it never actually translated into votes for him but he impressed people in the obama campaign as somebody they wanted to have out there. you go farther back in his career when he first ran for president in 1988, he got derailed by a bit of a plagiarism scandal, but when he was using his own words, he was one heck of an orator. that was his reputation. a really strong communicator. i look at biden and his debate skills and communication skills, and i say escapable of doing what barack obama eith
ryan saying mitt romney's performance makes it more difficult for him. people are suggesting that vice president joe biden is gaffe-ridden and incompetent. what are you expecting from this debate? >> i will go ahead and i would say i'd set the bar pretty high for biden because i think he's a much better debater than obama. one of the reasons biden ended up on the ticket with obama in 2008 was that in 2007 and 2008 running against hillary clinton, running against barack obama, it was biden...
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now we're coming up to romney and ryan. not this debate specifically coming after president obama's gaffe before. >> that was a big thing for everybody here in the room. this was a big debate obviously because of president obama's performance last time. glen, that's why you paid a lot of attention here tonight, correct? >> yes, i think biden came on real strong and confident. i think he needed to do that because obama's performance last week was disappointing. >> and do you think the president will be up to it now that the bar's been raised next week? >> we'll see. >> you're still undecided. >> yes. >> sam, you're still undecided. you gave me an answer earlier. you said, you know, they've been running for president for months and months and months. you have the internet, newspapers, radio, tv. you're getting bombarded by ads here. why can't you make up your mind? >> as i said before, we work for a living. you know, a lot of us get up at 4:00 a.m., go to work for 12, 14 hours. we're at home with our kids. we're not doing thi
now we're coming up to romney and ryan. not this debate specifically coming after president obama's gaffe before. >> that was a big thing for everybody here in the room. this was a big debate obviously because of president obama's performance last time. glen, that's why you paid a lot of attention here tonight, correct? >> yes, i think biden came on real strong and confident. i think he needed to do that because obama's performance last week was disappointing. >> and do you...
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>> mitt romney put paul ryan on the ticket. that's not running away from the plan. >> but i mean -- he didn't embrace the ryan budget. it was too tough for him perhaps? >> correct me if i'm wrong, my understanding governor romney has been complimentary of the ryan budget plan and recognizes that we need to make reforms so that the big entitlement programs will be there for the next generation we need to tighten the belt on discreti discretionary spending. i disagree. >> mitt romney's tax proposals, because he has said that he can cut taxes without blowing up the deficit, without being deficit neutral, and at the same time keep defense spending. >> yeah. >> increase the defense budget. how does that work? >> governor romney said he can lower marginal tax rates and generate offsetting revenue so we don't increase the side of the deficit. >> how do you generate that? >> you reduce the number of write-offs and loopholes in some combinations. >> which would you reduce? he's not been specific. >> he's provided more specificity than t
>> mitt romney put paul ryan on the ticket. that's not running away from the plan. >> but i mean -- he didn't embrace the ryan budget. it was too tough for him perhaps? >> correct me if i'm wrong, my understanding governor romney has been complimentary of the ryan budget plan and recognizes that we need to make reforms so that the big entitlement programs will be there for the next generation we need to tighten the belt on discreti discretionary spending. i disagree. >>...
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the romney-ryan ticket has been spending more time in ohio than in the country. here is a little bit from governor romney at his last event. thehis president on friday the administration was to put out hasanswer to the question chas china manipulated their currency or not. they were supposed to designate that on friday. they said we will not do that. we will wait until after the election to do that. seven times so far they passed the buck on that. i'm not going to pass that off. on day one i will label china a currency manipulator and get serious about making sure that people don't cheat when it comes to trade. >> reporter: the obama administration asserted that doing such tough crackdowns on china could lead to a trade war of the fastest growing economy in the word and they said that mr. romney hasn't been entirely pure when it comes to doing business with china himself in his private life and private business experience. the romney campaign says it is all excuses and time for the u.s. government to stop putting up with china's trade practices and currency manip
the romney-ryan ticket has been spending more time in ohio than in the country. here is a little bit from governor romney at his last event. thehis president on friday the administration was to put out hasanswer to the question chas china manipulated their currency or not. they were supposed to designate that on friday. they said we will not do that. we will wait until after the election to do that. seven times so far they passed the buck on that. i'm not going to pass that off. on day one i...
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Oct 8, 2012
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governor romney is and governor romney said famously after they were chosen, paul ryan has his plan but i'm the candidate. i have my own plan. paul ryan is going to have to figure out how he can talk about what he believes and not run afoul of wherever governor romney might be on any of these budgetary issues, and especially medicare. >> it could be very interesting and very important given where we are at this stage, 29 days out. jonathan and margie omera, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >>> a new group intimidating voters at the poll. into plus, the folks at snl brought humor but there's a serious point to be made. that's ahead. [ female announcer ] you can measure the growth of children by the way they clean themselves in the bathroom. try charmin ultra strong. with a new duraclean texture, it helps you get clean. plus it's four times stronger than the leading value brand. and you can use up to four times less. charmin ultra strong. yeah. then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a che
governor romney is and governor romney said famously after they were chosen, paul ryan has his plan but i'm the candidate. i have my own plan. paul ryan is going to have to figure out how he can talk about what he believes and not run afoul of wherever governor romney might be on any of these budgetary issues, and especially medicare. >> it could be very interesting and very important given where we are at this stage, 29 days out. jonathan and margie omera, thank you for your time...